Tom Friedman in an anti-France op-ed in the New York Times argued to replace France with India in the UN Security Council:
Because India is the world’s biggest democracy, the world’s largest Hindu nation and the world’s second-largest Muslim nation, and, quite frankly, India is just so much more serious than France these days.
Now I know it’s popular to bash France in the US and all, but this is not what this post is about. Like a lot of other people in the media, Friedman is a little behind in terms of population data. India is not the “world’s second-largest Muslim nation” nowadays. It used to be for most part from 1972-early 1990s (I think, but any actual data is welcome). Here is the population data for the countries with large Muslim populations from the CIA World Factbook.
| Country | Population | Percentage of Muslims | Muslim Population |
| Indonesia | 231,328,092 | 88.0% | 203,568,721 |
| Pakistan | 147,663,429 | 97.0% | 143,233,526 |
| India | 1,045,845,226 | 12.0% | 125,501,427 |
| Bangladesh | 133,376,684 | 83.0% | 110,702,648 |
| Turkey | 67,308,928 | 99.8% | 67,174,310 |
| Egypt | 70,712,345 | 94.0% | 66,469,604 |
| Iran | 66,622,704 | 99.0% | 65,956,477 |
| Nigeria | 129,934,911 | 50.0% | 64,967,456 |
| Ehtiopia | 67,673,031 | 47.5% | 32,144,690 |
| Morocco | 31,167,783 | 98.7% | 30,762,602 |
UPDATE: Thanks to CalPundit for the link.
wadood: I don’t doubt your anecdote. But I have no idea how much weight to give it. Plus I have no idea whether the problem was your anecdote, a local census problem or a systematic undercounting of Muslims.
And in another comment, you said not to believe CIA World Factbook figures as well.
information
bal: This is your warning for posting a genocidal comment. All vowels will be removed from your posts. Any further comments like this will result in a ban.
Well, being an Indian Muslim, and having lived in India, for most of my life, I would like to contribute with my own experience. Just as someone gave an example of Nagaur, Rajasthan up there, I can speak for Ahmedabad in Gujarat and Bombay.
I have been going to Ahmedabad a few times a year since childhood, and frankly, until a few years back, I would not believe anyone who said that there were more Hindus than Muslims there. Ofcourse, I did not visit all areas in Ahmedabad, but still you must realise that there was a preponderance of Muslims and they are definitely more than the 18% claimed by the census.
In Bombay, Muslims are claimed to be abt 16% by the census, and I can say it is definitely not more than 20% based on my experience of living there all my life. While Muslims are fairly widespread in South Bombay, as you go up to the suburbs, there are very few Muslim suburbs. Ofcourse, Bombay is the most cosmopolitan city of India, and there are a lot of cosmopolitan societies, with all people living together, but still when you visit professional institutions, the number of Muslims is definitely low. I wouldn’t say it is because of discrimination, but because of Muslims not working hard enough. However of the many places in India I have seen, Muslims in Bombay are the most progressive and richest Muslims from India. A lot of the high-end businesses are held by Muslims as are many famous doctors, lawyers, architects etc and ofcourse Muslims are widely present in the film industry. In fact, for the past few years, the toppers in SSC and HSC have quite often been Muslims. I see changes taking place in Muslim society in Bombay, with many youngsters now aspiring to become professionals and businessmen, even among the poorer classes unlike in Ahmedabad(which is really backward). The future is bright for them.
Taha: Thanks for your comment.
Regarding population estimates from general observation, my experience is that most people misjudge the data. Not saying you are wrong since censuses can be wrong as well, but something to keep in mind.
I don’t know how minorities are treated in Pakistan but,minorities especially Muslims in some parts of India are being mentally assaulted and physically aswell sometimes.Surely,Godhra carnage is a blot on the face of Secularism and Tolerance.People arrested in Godhra carnage are all charged with POTA.While people arrested in post-Godhra carnage are all roaming free in the Society.If the people involved in Godhra carnage are terrorists then,the people involved in post-Godhra carnage are also terrorists for sure. I would not rule out that, there is no discrimination against minorities in India.Christians are also often ill-treated by Hindu lunatics and fanatics.Before pointing out other nations for their ill-treatment of minorities it is time for our own extremists to set an example.
India got independence on 15th Aug 1947.It is a combined effort of all the people of the country. It is not just by people of one race or one religion. It is a joint effort of Muslims, Hindus, Sikhs and everybody in the country. Finally we got freedom. Each and everybody of the country has right to enjoy freedom. According to our constitution every Indian is equal and enjoys equal rights. It was the situation until congress was ruling India.But situations changed after 1992 when Babri Masjid was demolished for attaining power in the centre by BJP.Everybody in the country know that it is a communal party playing with the communal feelings of scape goat like poor Indians. It has been the communal face of India since 12 years after demolition of the Masjid.
BJP has put an end to secularism. What for Dr.BabaSaheb Ambedkar and all othe intellectuals of the country has sought secularism in this country. They who are the true patriots (Mahatma Gandhi, Chandrasekhar Azad , SubhashChandra Bose,Bhagat Singh) of the country,sacrified their lives for this country , would have never imagined the present communal India. They know the values of democracy, freedom secularism, and integrity of this country. They actually felt that all Indians are like their brothers and sisters.
But , now the situation is changed. People like Thackeray and Togadia who kill Indians in the name of religion are calling themselves patriots of this country.Togadia publicly makes a statement in news papers that they(VHP,RSS) were the cause for post Godhra carnage. News papers publish the news on the front page. All the people of this country go thru these things. Those people include President, Prime Minister, Defence Minister Justices of various Courts in India. Everybody who believe in our constitution criticize the act. But till now the (Best Bakery) case is unsolved.
I would like to ask Togadia whether he has ever pledged in his school days. If so has he just taken oath for the sake of formality in schools. Please remember Mr that it contains “All Indians are my brothers and sisters”. I guess he is a PhD. He speaks about killing of Muslims. Does a PhD degree teaches you to kill your own brothers and sisters?
If education is to teach u behave in barbaric manner then there is no use of having a PhD degree.
Several people were killed in post Godhra carnage .Togadia claimed that it was like a revenge on Muslims. It means he is definitely involved in the killings. When he goes home, start eating food doesn’t he find flesh of innocent people in his plate and their blood in his drinking water? How can he live peacefully by killing so many people? Shouldn’t he answer to the suppressed voices of the people whose beloved were killed. If all this is to attain power, then shame on you and your politics.
Now I ask u people of India a person who kills our own Indians in the name of race and religion and plays worst political games with their innocence …is he a patriot or terrorist? Certainly a licensed terrorist of the present Indian government.
Sorry guys but this post is about the populations of Muslims in different countries and not about treatment of minorities in India.
i think ther eis more muslims in india than in pak
as said earlier 60% of muslims from british india went to the muslim state, which again separated into two almost equal parts , pakistan and bangladesh
that will make it 30% pak 30% bangla 40% india
now if pak got almost 145 million and bangla follow right after with 140 million , then india shut have more than 150 million…
the growth rate is higher in india… couse of the muslims population is more poorer… and that results in mass baby booms… i would rather say extra babyboom, it is enough babyes there from before…
well thats my point of view…and i would say it is more than 12% muslims there
and in indian registers…ismailis , khojas and qadiyanis also regarding as muslims…so if we cut em it wont reach the 12% it will still be higher than that…
The assasination of Abdel Azeez Rantissi is abhorable.
Ottoman: If I remember correctly, in 1947, Muslims were almost equally divided among India, West and East Pakistan. The population growth rates have however varied over time.
I haven’t seen any reason to doubt the Indian census and I’ll stick with those figures until someone can give me a reason not to.
in indian registers…ismailis , khojas and qadiyanis also regarding as muslims.
Why should we exclude those groups. Ahmedis/Qadiyanis claim to be Muslims but some Muslims (and the state of Pakistan) reject that. So their case is controversial. But I haven’t heard anyone argue that Ismailies aren’t Muslims.
Madani: What has Rantissi got to do with the topic of this post?
Regarding the post, I had only a few comments to make. India does have a good share of muslim population. But majority of states from Maharashtra/Madhya Pradesh/Tamil Nadu/Rajasthan/Orissa/Chattisgarh/Himachal/Punjab/Haryana/Gujarat/Uttaranchal/NorthEast excluding Assam/ Andhra Pradesh/Goa have a population of muslims less than 10%. These states contribute about 600-700 million of India. So that would mean that there are roughly 60 Million in these states. From UP/Karnatak/Kerala/Assam/West bengal, they would contribute atleast 80 million people. So in all that would be about 140 Million muslims which is more than 12% of the population. But that hardly counts for anything in a country that has 81% Hindus. But still inspite of the few riots/ and Congress counting muslims as votebanks. Muslims haven’t had it too bad. Unfortunate that many muslims are poor. But who is to blame for that ? Muslims themselves who have lost an identity to hindus. They sometimes don’t live in unison with the rest of the country. That makes it very difficult to really make them progress. Luckily because of Irfan Pathan, Zaheer Khan, Mohammed Kaif, Indians have let go of the fact that indian muslims support the pakistan team during india-pakistan match. These trio of cricketers have done more to mobilise and make proud the indian muslims than anything before. They have brought an identity of Indian Muslims into the centrestage and it was very heartening to see all Indians rejoice and hindus be proud of these cricketers and make no difference between them . I think this will change the indian mindsets, and get off the congress party who only treats muslims as votebanks, and forget abt them after elections. Atleast the NDA government has ensured better recognition for them on the national stage, and made a staunch Hindu like me know more about the religion and bring about respect for the community.
India has never been so truly secular. This is India Shining.
Again, I like to comment about the Muslim Population statistics in India. I recently met a few dozen Indians (Hindus, Sikhs) would also state the the India Census is normally incorrect, as my Muslim villages are counted as Hindu, where some areas are projected and not counted by the vote census. Above the rest, I found evidence carried out by a few Doctors in India the Muslims do number over 25% of the total population, with well over the region of 25 million. It is also important to note that once CIA confirm population statistics of any nation, apart from USA census, every is correct according to CIA. Yet USA census where ethnic population is concerned is always wrong, I wonder why >>>!
Population Statistics for China were criticised by alot of Muslims both from China and around the world to CIA census. Yet no comments were made by the CIA reporting on the census statistics, and where again a few of us have written to CIA branch for the census information for India no reply to date. Yet it is confirmed by CIA now that Muslims number over 2 billion from 2002 yet Muslims sources have claim being over 2 billion in 1995. India alone has over 250 million and not 25 million, and China over 154 million and not 34 million.
Hussain: Censuses are never 100% accurate. There are always some errors, especially in counting the poor and indigent.
India’s count of its Muslim population could be somewhat off, but I don’t think it can be off by a factor of 2 (12% vs 25%) as you allege.
China is a different matter. I haven’t looked at Chinese statistics recently but what I remember from 10-15 years ago is that because of Chinese repression of religion, no one had any idea of the number of Muslims in China.
Muslims are not terrorists. DOT. FULLSTOP
Low percentage of muslim population shown as per the cencus is to create a feeling that the mulims are still and always a very tiny population in India, but the truth is different. Allah knows the best..
Seek refuge in Allah and pray to Allah that what happend with Spanish muslims may not happen with Indian muslims.
Atleast now we must have faith in us and create a political background for the muslims without holding the tails of so called secular forces….
Sami: You are correct that Muslims are not terrorists. However, some Muslims are.
Sheik: I don’t understand where all this conspiracy theory mongering is coming from.
And Muslims in India can be proud to call them self proud Indians. Of course , it’s their homeland. But when you say that you are Indian
people catch this up..
Indian>>Hindian>>>Hindi>>>Hind>>>Hindu????
That’s not what they are
they are Indian>>>Muslim!!
Before mentioning this you must think that the word Hindu derives from the word Sindu (river).
As the Aryans invaded India on BC 2nd century through Sindu River they are called as sindu when india called as only HIND. later they called there religion as Hindu.
So a muslim also can proud himslef as indian as the name india was derived from the word HIND.
Ahmed: Every Indian Muslim I know can be called an Indian nationalist.
pls send me the exact muslim population in india
hi to all muslims around the world, i hope the growth increase and if we help each others ,the muslim world population will increase and it will help us reunite together………….may alah bless each and everyone specially (afghanistan)…witch suffered alot.
sibgat: Here is the religion data from the Indian Census of 1991. The 2001 census religion data hasn’t been released yet.
Can anybody give some information about incidence of bigamy among Muslims vis a vis among other communities?
Fazal: Anecdotally, I haven’t found bigamy to be very common among South Asian Muslims. But I don’t have any actual data.
inshaallah one day india would become a muslim country.those who are non muslim should study islam in detail,and they would find it what is a true religion
hey arsalan, how u doin 2day buddy? hope all’s well…. [Edited by Siteowner]
One more question for u zack! how come a motrifying remark made by the so called big hole in the arse “i mean arsalan” about Hindu’s has not been deleted and the commenter banned?
I have one more thing to say to all u anti Indian ppl….. when u talk about muslims being oppressed in india an blah blah bull shit….y dont u compare the Indian situation with that of pakistan’s…..coz we in india have a democracy and not a military regime…..we have muslim leaders who are politically active in India…..where as in pakistan being hindu is a sin coz u have a military regime and minorities such as hindus are oppressed all the time and forced to follow islamic laws……that is so friggin ridiculous. Muslims in India are not illtreated in those respects,they have their rights, where as in pakistan the rights of the hindus have been snatched away from them…!
arsalan: I sincerely hope you are talking about convincing people to convert to Islam peacefully and reasonably and not thinking about conquering and killing.
Indian: I have removed some offensive personal comments from you. Keep the discussion civil. Disagree with arsalan as strongly as you can but don’t insult him or his family.
Regarding not banning arsalan, I try to keep the discussion as open as possible. Plus proselytization is not a crime. I have asked him to explain.
While the treatment of minorities is not at all good in all South Asian countries, I don’t know if we can directly compare whether India or Pakistan is doing marginally better in this regard. You are, of course, correct that India is a democracy and has a secular constitution unlike Pakistan.
First of all I am sorry for digressing from the main topic of Muslim population.
I think that people of any state or religion or other factors would always love to live in peace (barring the psychos). We humans take to the ‘other’ routes only when it poses a question to our existence.
What I am trying to say here is that religious fanaticism or the ensuing riots are not a fiction of a common man, who is more busy with his daily life. It is rather perpetrated by those who make the fanaticism the ‘route’ to their very existence and in there they find their success. I am referring to the Politicians. I believe that no one would ever endanger someone else’s peace – but these politicians have a direct interest in doing so. These are the people who incenerate the fires of riots. Rather than discussing Hindu-Muslim we should really move to eliminate this desease of humanity and more importantly as a means we should educate people (the poor masses) so that they can decide on their own.
Irony is that we all know this but do not understand.
I was a proud Indian Muslim but now as I am an American Citizen I call myself an American Muslim.
But I still love India as any other Indian American irrespective of Religon.
As many people say that Indian Muslim population is about 150 million.
All Muslims are as loyal to their country as the Hindus. The only thing these FANATIC HINDUS like that guy Hindutwa think only those Muslims are loyal who represent India in national sports an play good againg Pakistan or those who design nuclear missiles for India like our Muslim President.
As that Sindhi guy is saying about Pakistan can he compare how many Hindus are killed in Pakistan because they are Hindus and how many Muslims are killed in India because they are Muslims. I am not a fan of Pakistan or have anything to do with it but one thing is there are lot more Muslims killed In India than the Hindus in Pakistan
There is very less descrimination of Muslims in India as far as education is concerned. They are lacking behind because they don’t work hard in School.
But there is descrimination in jobs and that is because if you get 100 aplicants of very similar calibe you will tend to hire the one who has your beliefs. This is mainly because of such a high unemployment.
Zack —- BTW, what religion r u from? bcoz that will certainly explain everything.
John: I am a Muslim, though I have no idea how that would “explain everything.”
i want to just say that non muslim should understand islam and learn what is in it.the arab who were the idol worshipper become good muslim when they learned what it is really about.I hope that you should understand islam and choice better one from it.site owner i am perfectly fine.inshaallah one day whole india would become a muslim country
i believe that the area of india is becoming muslim really fast.converging of hindus is fast because people are finding as a peacefull and a real religion.you will think that islam is a religion of terrorist,but that not the case, it has been misunderstood.those people who are fighting is because muslim are being attack by those people.so muslim are not going to sit and get their ass kick, they would fight.same discrimination is happening in india,and it would not be long that muslim will rise in india and would take an action against them.when this happen every non muslim realize that islam is true religion.
how can you hindus believe in a thing that you have created yourself?humans are no god.there is one God and that is allah because if there was lots of god than there would not be anything stable and no creature would be surviving.everybody would be figthing for power and destroying each other creation
Guys, this post was about the populous Muslim countries. So take your “India becoming Muslim” fantasies and Hindu-bashing elsewhere.
I just want make a comment about what this “Sindhi” guy said. He claims that things would be alot better if somehow India and Pakistan got back together again. Man, what kind of freaky dreamworld do you live in. Yo, you need to go get educated or read some history kid. The reason why Pakistan was created in the first place was because of that fact that Muslims and Hindus couldnt get along with each other. Muslim and Hindus are so different in their religious beliefs and culture that it is impossible for them to live peacefully without any incident. Muslims believe in one God, while hindus worship idols. Hindus consider some animals to be sacred, for example a cow, while Muslims and people of other religious believes consider it a viable part of their food chain.
The argument that muslims and hindus have lived together for so many years is true considering the fact that it was under muslim kings. Infact India in its entirety(starting from pakistan upto bangladesh) was never ruled by hindus. Different hindu Rajas have controlled a vast part of it, but never has a single hindu ruler ever controlled the whole of India.
Anyways I dont want to sound like a guy who is a complete bigot and doesnt believe in complete harmony with people of other religons, but the fact of the matter is, an india with a hindu majority and a sizeable muslim population is impracticle. Besides the hindus already think of the rising population of india as a threat, you think they would have sat well with a muslim population close to 450 million. It would have been an invitation to chaos.
Omar, the comments made by me obviously were just to provoke thought and comment. I’m not a fool. It’s virtually impossible to reunite India-Pakistan. I should have rephrased my comments. I meant it to be that India-Pakistan could develop a relationship like U.S-Canada.
BTW, England aided in developing Pakistan for their own political interests by driving the differences farther between Hindus and Muslims. Despite the religious differences, it’s not like the Hindus and Muslims NEVER got along. You seem to have a wrong impression of the relationships Hindus-Muslims have had throughout history.
I don’t have the energy to reply to so many off-topic comments.
Coming back to the original topic, according to the latest Indian census, the percentage of Muslims in India is 13.4%. As the July 2004 Indian population estimate is 1,065,070,607, the number of Muslims in India comes out to 143 million. Compare that to Pakistan’s 154 million Muslims.
Zack,
You can’t assume that the percentage of Islam has remained at exactly 13.4% since 2001, when India’s population was at 1.03 billion. At around 1.07 billion people now, I’d guess that the Islamic Indian population would be around 14%.
The data shows that over the past 43 years, only Islam has shown consistent growth in India, at a gain of 2.7% from 1961. Every other religion has remained stagnant or decreased as a of the total population. With Islam having a stated population of around 138,000,000 in 2001 at 13.4 of the population, the number is different now. Since the percentage of Islam in India has increased more from 1991-2001 than previous years, I would apply that growth from 2001 to 2004 as well. I assume that about Islam has increased at about .5% gain from 2001. Therefore, Islam, at 14% of of the 1.07 billion Indian population, is almost 150 million.
“Compare that to Pakistan’s population of 154 million.”
Could you send me the link where you received the data for Pakistan’s religious populations?
Sindhi: Point. Let’s say Indian Muslim population is in the range 143-148 million (13.4-13.9%).
The percentage of Muslims in Pakistan in 96.28% according to the 1998 census. The July 2004 population estimate is 159,196,336.
Note that I am using the latest population estimates from the CIA World Factbook. The Pakistani and Indian cnesus organizations give different current population estimates. However, CIA factbook religion data is out of date and inexact.
Soo many negative posts, anyway dose anyone know where i can find a reliable source for south asian muslim populations and growth trends for the coming years? I aggree that some of the figures presented at the CIA Factbook are quite out of date, even in regards to China… Shame! 🙁
And info will help, i need it for some research essays! Thankyou.
Ren: Other than the Pakistani and Indian census websites, I can’t help you.
Zack,
I believe you may want to check this website if you haven’t already done so.
http://www.islamicpopulation.com/asia_islam.html
They claim that India has the highest number of muslims living in the country than anywhere else in the world, with a stated population of 213 million. Is this an accurate site?
Sindhi: Here is how they say they got the 20% number:
This does not seem like sound methodology to me.
One thing is for certain there is no muslim oppression in India as it is always tried to be shown… I am a Hindu and at times i feel the laws made r only for us and not the muslims..there is a law in india that after 10p.m. the sound decimals have to be bare min. I stay in a Muslim locality and at the time of any of their festivals they blare their loudspeakers upto 3 or 4 a.m. causing severe inconvience to everybody. The police when informed do not take any action against these people fearing their never ending tales of minority harresment.Even during Friday prayers they start praying on the roads thereby stopping traffic…These r just a few instances… Sometimes one feels whether this is really our HINDUSTAN… They r Pampered beyond limits and when i read ur articles and someone suggests the Indian muslims are troubled it really leaves me AMUSED…..
raj: I think the reality is somewhere between “pampered” and “oppressed.”
Sorry for deviating from the main topic, but Hinduism is a far more complicated religion than most people would be able to understand (Hindus included) Idol worship is only symbolic, Hinduism really believes in one formless and limitless omnipresent omni etc etc all powerful genderless GOD. The multitudes of Gods and Godesses and stories about them that have given shape to hinduism of today are really just stories (Puranas), part of Hindu mythology and were meant to be treated as such. Although we see reconversions today, Hinduism also does not believe in converting people – as long as you are a good person, consider yourself a good Hindu, no matter how big a meat eater you are or how ignorant you ar about Hindus living in India. A young Pakistani American Muslim woman recently wrote a book called why I am a Muslim. A very good and well written book. She describes how certain cultural aspects that were never part of actual Islam are considered Muslim traditions. Hinduism is much much older than Islam. So traditions have been imbibed into Hinduism to a far greater extent than in any other religion. Most people, Hindus included, think that those traditions are integral part of their religion.
I am particularly proud of the fact that we do not try to convert other people into our religion. In any other religion, religious tolerance is an oxymoron. Whether we do it by persuation or by force if we are trying to convert people to our faith, we are making a loud statement that we do not tolerate other religions (other peoples views) and would like the entire world to think just the way we do. Reminds me of some sci fi Hollywood movies where an alien power tries to take over the world and rule it by making everyone think just the way it thinks. To me such a thought is scary. I hope better sense prevails on all those so keen on converting others.
Now Zack, the cenus by Govt of India is not reliable. A true estimate would make the right wing Hindu Nationalists angry. As we are all aware, there are right wing Hindu Nationalists who are already claiming that the muslim population is higher than 25%. Most muslims in India actually believe that number to be true, and like some of the people here in the group, they hope that the entire India would someday become Muslim. Although it seems far fetched at present, it may become a reality. The true percentage of Muslims in India is like someone quoted “Allah knows best”.
There are more atrocities against Muslims in India than against Hindus in Pakistan because there are hardly any Hindus left in Pakistan. If we really need an honest account, we should consider all the Hindus and Sikhs that were killed during partition. In comparison, riots in India were better controlled by police. When Babri masjid was demolished, most politicians associated with it dissociated themselves calling it henious and shameful. Mulayam Singh Yadav, the then chief minister of UP brought in the PAC, a mostly Muslim police force and killed a large number of Hindus who were still rioting. The Govt and all media deplored the demolition act. In Pakistan however, MPs lead the masses into rampage bringing down all Hindu temples they could lay their hands on. People cheered and the general opinion was a very happy one. Hindus do not have overground temples in Pakistan (generally) The are no politicians in Pakistan that are analogous to Laloo Yadav, Mulayam Singh Yadav, Arjun Singh (Muslim butt lickers or pseudo secularists whatever one may call them) and the likes. Comparing India and Pakistan is like comparing the moon with the horse’s butt (Bengali translation).
What irritates me most is when journalists write that after partition India was divided into a Muslim Pakistan and a Hindu majority India. A naive reader will think that partition created two theocratic nations, India being a Hindu nation. Zack, you too gave your religious bias away when you wrote that it is not proper to discuss which nation (India or Pakistan) is ‘marginally’ better in treating minorities. Inspite of Gujrat violence and Babari Masjid demolition, India is way better in its treatment of religious minorities than ANY theocratic Muslim nation, and Zack, admit it or not, you know it too.
Hope peace prevails.
Ajay.