Previous Posts in my series on marriage: Cousin marriage, forced marriage in Pakistan, forced marriage in Islam.
I had completely forgotten about completing this series until I saw Yasmine comment on Abez’s blog (no permalinks; look up the June 10 post titled “How I Own 1/7th of Riaz’s heart”).
Although Western socities tend to deride arranged marriages as backward and uncivilized and primitive, there do exist positive aspects. For example, Westerners focus more on the physical aspect of relationships, and are thus obsessed with love, sex, beauty, etc. As a result, people get married based on these factors and then get disenchanted with one another very easily. The divorce rate in Western countries such as the U.S. has skyrocketed. […]In contrast, Eastern cultures that practice arranged marriages place far more emphasis on the practical, such as integrity, diligence, ambition, humility, generosity, etc. People get married based on practical reasons, and work on building affection later. Strong characteristics like the ones described above are very conducive to building love and affection in Eastern marriages. As a result, these marriages are much longer-lasting than many Western marriages (at least, based on what i’ve seen so far). It’s BECAUSE the primary emphasis is NOT on love, sex, and physical beauty that arranged marriages are usually so successful, because the spouses get to know one another on a practical level first, looking beyond trivial issues such as beauty or lack thereof.
And, of course, i know it can go both ways: there ARE many arranged marriages that are just total hell, and there are marriages that started out based only on infatuation and grew stronger as time passed. But I think as long one as looks for the right characteristics in a potential spouse, then, arranged marriage or not, ‘s all good.
I won’t reply to her points directly but a discussion of the similar ideas comes later in this post.
First, we need to consider what an arranged marriage is. It is basically a marriage which is arranged by someone other than the couple themselves, usually their parents. It encompasses a lot of different varieties: the harshest arranged marriages are almost forced upon the bride or groom while the most liberal ones start with just an introduction of the coouple through their parents and the rest is up to the couple.
Traditionally in arranged marriages, the decision is made by the parents of the couple and they have to abide by that decision. It was quite likely that they would see each other for the first time after their wedding. These marriages are still prevalent though in lesser numbers than the past. I know quite a few people who are actually proud that they did not meet with their spouse before marriage and married a total stranger. Another thing that I have heard happen is that the parents are usually so confident of their child agreeing to whoever they arrange their marriage with that they don’t bother asking for their opinion before finalizing the proposal. The guy or girl is then left with little choice but to agree.
Then there is the emotional pressure or even emotional blackmail. Parents beseech their children to agree to a proposal before they die or make use of other emotional pressures. A very mild example is shown in this Washington Post article:
But the Patels didn’t drop the idea [of going to India from the US to look for a groom for their daughter], and Indian daughters hesitate to defy their parents. Many times her mother had prepared vegetarian meals for Vibha while she was away at college, and her father had driven nearly five hours to Blacksburg to deliver them, then turned around and headed home — how could she now dismiss their wishes? Her father’s eldest brother, dying in a nearby hospice with the whole family gathered around, yearned to see her engaged — shouldn’t she give him this final pleasure?
The more liberal arranged marriages nowadays are called “semi-arranged marriage,” or “arranged introduction” by some people. Here, the process starts with the parents but the guy and girl have input as well and the final decision is the couple’s. That’s why some proponents of arranged marriage say that it is no different than your mom setting you up on a date. However, there is a huge difference.
They [the parents] run ads, canvass Web sites, put the word out on the community grapevine: Dad’s aunt knows a nice Bengali family in Atlanta whose nephew is an electrical engineer. Mom’s medical school classmate in Detroit has a cousin with a single daughter working with computers in Bangalore.
After their parents perform due diligence — Hindu marriages are considered a union of two families, not merely two individuals, so bloodlines and reputations matter — the children meet and spend time together and decide whether their relationship has a future. A voluntary process, no different from having your friends fix you up, the fixed-up like to say.
But it is different. Families —- many of whom disapprove of or forbid dating —- don’t want to introduce their kids to someone to hang out with or move in with; they want a wedding, and soon. Vinay’s relatives think that after he’s spent three or four evenings with a woman, he ought to know: She’s his future bride or she’s history.
So the parents have a large amount of input in deciding who gets through the initial vetting. Also, there is pressure to make a decision. One is not allowed to take the time it takes to get to know someone, but has to decide on a deadline.
In Muslim families, one-on-one meeting is generally out. So the couple get together along with their parents or in more liberal families with a chaperone. Try meeting your future wife for the only time before your wedding decision in front of both your parents and then try striking up a conversation with her.
People think that the do-it-yourself marriages (“love marriages”) in the West rely on superficial characteristics like physical beauty. Here’s the ad placed by Vinay’s parents:
Punjabi parents desire beautiful, professional, never married, US raised girl for handsome son, 34, 5’10”/150, fair, slim, athletic, engineer/MBA, consultant in DC area. Enjoys travel, sports, music. Please reply …
When parents go looking for a spouse for their child, they consider beauty, ethnicity, religion, education, social/financial status and even horoscopes. Which of these criteria are superficial? There are times when a guy’s mom would reject girls because of the smallest “defects” in physical appearance. Or because of the girl being a bit older than the guy (even by a few months).
Ethnicity and religion are very important factors that most parents don’t overlook for arranged marriages. I know a number of guys whose families insisted that they had to marry another Pathan (an ethnic group in NWFP, Pakistan and in Afghanistan) even though these guys and their families had otherwise completely assimilated in Lahore or Karachi for hundreds of years. No one in their families spoke Pashto or Dari, the languages that Pathans/Pashtuns speak. Still their families would not think of marrying someone outside their definition of the tribes that comprise the Pathans.
Imagine how many parents in the US are comfortable with their children marrying someone of another race. Now think what would happen if these parents could decide who could or could not marry their kid. The result would definitely be far less miscegenation. And that’s what happens in societies with arranged marriages.
In the end, the discussion of arranged and love marriages comes down to which is better. Obviously, the one that leads to more successful marriages. Proponents of arranged marriage claim that it is more successful, but their definition of success focusses on divorce rates.
It [arranged marriage] works better than Americans’ impulsive love marriages, which so often split apart. “We have less divorce,” Vibha’s mother points out. “That’s what results tell us.”
But are divorce rates really a measure of successful marriage? Do all the couples that don’t get divorced stay happy with each other? The prevalence of divorce in a society depends on a lot of factors including the stigma of divorce.
In fact, the advantages and drawbacks of arranged marriages can’t be so easily appraised. The incidence of divorce among Indian-born Americans is dramatically lower than among Americans generally, but that partly reflects the continuing stigma of divorce. Even as the divorce rate among Indian Americans appears to be increasing, the topic is rarely discussed. […]Divorce reflects poorly on an Indian family, and some proportion of arranged marriages endure not because they are successful or rewarding, but because leaving them would bring such shame.
In addition, the concept of a woman living independently is foreign to most people in South Asian culture. Also, a majority of women don’t work in Pakistan and hence find it difficult to have enough money to support themselves without getting married or after getting divorced.
And many endure because the definition of success differs from Western ideas. Traditional Indians don’t expect a partner to be that improbable combination of soul mate/confidante/red-hot lover/best friend. “The husband-wife bond is one of reliability and dependability and complementary family roles — raising children, caring for elders,” explains Karen Leonard, author of The South Asian Americans and a University of California-Irvine anthropologist. “They may communicate very little in intimate ways, and it’s still a good marriage.”
Hence, they are married as strangers and stay strangers all their lives.
Arranged marriages are the norm in Pakistan and if its proponents are right, then marriages should be very successful there in general. In terms of divorce rates, they are but then how to explain this:
Estimates of the percentage of women who experience domestic violence in Pakistan range from 70 to upwards of 90 percent.
A lot of people nowadays think that arranged marriages are somehow tied to Islam or Muslims. In fact, arranged marriages are common in a lot of societies in Africa and Asia. They are the norm in India and Japan among other countries.
What is the position of Islam on the topic of arranged marriage? As I mentioned in my post about forced marriage in Islam, traditional and conservative scholars require the approval of the bride’s guardian for her marriage (a position I disagree with). In addition, conservatives are wary of any kind of mixing of the sexes socially. Therefore, for women, there is not much of a practical way out of this dilemma. Some modern scholars however disagree and allow a couple to get married without parental involvement. They still disagree with dating, but meeting of the couple for the purpose of making a decision about marriage is allowed. So, the marriage would tend to be like the “semi-arranged marriage.”
A final question to anyone who favors arranged marriage and specially those who don’t want the couple to get to know each other before marriage: What do you think about having sex with a stranger to whom you are married? Or do you think a couple like that should wait until they know each other better?
Shef – your comment “as demonstrated by the various sob stories posted here from non-indian girls and their indian boyfriends” I’m sure was not meant to be insulting but using the term “sob stories” I find quite offensive. You make it sound like we are just whining children. I am a grown woman who has unfortunately fallen in love with a weak man. However, I have found the strength to break away from him, which was very painful but necessary. I hope you did not mean things to sound the way they came across, but please this is a very sensitive subject for all concerned. Thanks.
jemima, believe me, i was definitely NOT trying to be offensive, maybe i just used the wrong words. if anything, i sympathisize with you girls, and so i’m trying to stay away from indian men myself, as even a lot(though NOT all) of them cannot stand up to their folks even if they’re dating an indian girl. thus, i don’t want to deal with this nonsense anymore. i want a man who can respect his folks, yet still be able to make choices on his own. This has been my own experience with indian men, and so i strongly feel this way about them. want to find love elsewhere, and if that works for me, then that’s the most important thing.
zack, i still don’t get one thing: in a previous post you said it’s true that personalities can change after marriage, and that you never really know someone until after you marry them, but it’s still better than marrying a total stranger, so how is that so? if there’s a strong chance that the person whom you’ve known for 5 years can turn out to be a jerk after you two get hitched, then what’s the point in knowing somebody before? you can marry someone whom you get just met like that girl Vibha did in that washington post article, and have it turn out well, can’t you? zack, didn’t that girl Vibha have a happy ending with a man whom she married after knowing him for a short while?
How sick is it to marry in one’s caste/ religion etc.It is like marrying someone from your own biological root family. that is why there are so many defective children in asian countries esp india pakistan . They don tunderstand the simple biological rule that you MUST NEVER HAVE A BABY WITH YOUR BIOLOGICAL RELATIVES COZ THAT HAS A HIGH CHANCE OF BEING PHYSICALLY/MENTALLY UNFIT.
I am not against anyone.
shef:
0.7 is obviously not 1, but if we were approximating it to the nearest integer it would be considered 1 rather than 0. So while personalities can and do change and it is not always possible to know the whole personality of anyone before (or even after) you marry them, you still have better knowledge than zero, which is what the person who marries a total stranger has.
rose:
I am not sure what you mean by that. After all, there are about a billion Hindus, more than a billion Muslims and may be 1.5-2 billion Christians in the world. Should no one from among them marry within their own religion? You are conflating cousin marriages which have a somewhat higher risk with all sorts of marriages.
zack, what do you consider a stranger to be? someone whom you have never seen and met, or like in hindu custom, where after the couple meets a few times, then they marry? is the latter case still two strangers marrying? also, proponents of arranged marriages say it works better than love marriages because people do background checks, family checks, etc. my question is, don’t even people in love marriages do that? i mean they make sure they have a good family, good job, etc? isn’t that still a background check, and if it’s not so, then what’s the difference here? also, zack, isn’t this arranged marriage system not fiar to people who’s folks don’t have that many contacts, or aren’t that rich, since the more of that stuff you have, the fewer people you may meet even if you yourself are well-educated and stable, as opposed to a system where you can look for someone on your own, and first the couple decide if they’re okay for one another, then the family wealth, status, etc is considered? i aks this becasue one of my brilliant educated cousins is in this case, and because her folks aren’t financially well-off, not many guys want to meet her, and she’s very financially stabler and all. isn’t this system very limiting for people?
shef: Stranger is defined as “a person or thing that is unknown or with whom one is unacquainted.” So someone you haven’t met is definitely a stranger. However, someone you have met once or twice is, even if not strictly a stranger, still relatively a stranger to you.
The process is usually very different but in general it sort of is done in love marriages.
Sort of, though different kinds of people lose in different marriage situations. Dating also requires some attributes and skills and those who don’t have them lose out. But your point is definitely valid for arranged marriages.
zack, what did you mean by the process of background checks is very different in love marrages? also, even though i agree with you that even dating requires the use of attributes, and you may lose if you don’t have them, don’t you think that dating, and having the opportuniaty to meet people on your own is still better than being just limited to your parents’ choices of potential mates, since their contacts may also be limited, and they have their own biases, so you’re stuck even more there?
lastly, what about in arranged marriage, if you leave your folks to do the background checks, and if they get fooled by the opposing party, and you marry them after a couple of “dates,” or meetings, and you get stuck in a quagmire becasue your parents were fooled by your spouses’ parents and the other people? what do you do, and who suffers? i’ve known people in my own family who’ve had these situations, so my question to you is can’t this system of background checks actually backfire on you, because people do lie and all?
shef:
Well, there is no special background check like there is in arranged marriages. But you have a relationship with the boy-/girl-friend for longer and get to know them better. Plus you meet and hang out with his/her friends and family which can also reveal things. Etc.
I agree.
That definitely happens. The problem here, to a first approximation, is not arranged marriage itself but aspects of the whole marriage culture (of which arranged marriage is a part). Usually divorce or separation is a major no-no in such cultures and so one is stuck in a bad marriage.
zack, why did you mention in your post that how do people who favor arranged marriage feel about sleeping with someone whom they’ve just met after a couple of “dates” or meetings? how come you don’t think sleeping with someone whom you’ve just met is a good idea, since you can know for years can suddenly turn into a bad lover after marriage? I personally feel that sleeping with a relative stranger may expose you to STDS, or he/she might be rough or bad to you in bed, or worse yet, she/he could be so frigid and disdainful towards sex, which would be a total waste, so i wouldn’t sleep with a relative stranger, unless i discussed with him his sexual past or his other partners, since people may have many skeletons hidden behind their closets, so you must be careful.
also zack: when you mentioned earleir that in a marriage, if you can have the same relationship with a spouse and a roommate, then that’s not good, since the universal ideal of a marriage worldwide is to have pretty much a lover/best friend/canfidante relationship, then can you possibly have complications resulting from that scenariop where the husband and wife bond is that of roommates? i think so, because what if the communication loses, because you cannot or don’t want to intimately connect with one another, and so lack of communication may actually cause problems in a relationship, since don’t forget, you two are married together for a long time, and any long term relationship, whether out of love or not, is subject to disagreements and problems, and abuse due to change of financial situations, change of family environment, and thus they two consorts may not love each other as much as they did in the beginning. i saw this happen in my own family, and so i think having a roomate relationship with your spouse can actually be very detrimental and backfire.
zack, what problems do you think may arise if the husband/wife realtionship is the same or similar to that of a relationship between two roommates?
Lastly, to all of you: i’m gonna try to give some good advice from my own life experiences: it’s okay to just have you friends/parents introduce you to people, but still, i suggest you date and try to find someone on your own too, since you may not find a good person for marriage, and have parental pressure to marry for the sake of marriage, like my cousins are having now, and that may make you make a wrong decision. don’t do it. to all my indian brothers and sisters: listen to your folks, since they care for you, but also make your own choices, for in the end, it’s still your life, and your folks won’t be around forever. i hate this stupid arranged marriage system, and my biggest fear is to end up like the people in that washington post article. I’m gonna find true love, the one whom i feel is meant for me, even if it kills me! If i was brave enough at the age of 7 years to get lost in an unknown town on my bike, but by using my memory and calmness to find my way back home, then i can certainly have enough courage to find the one man out there for me, as God is my witness. I wish this to all my indian brothers/sisters.
thank u
i had a group discussion, on the topic “arrange marraiges r more sucessfull than love marraige”
shef:
Who said so?
Lack of intimacy, love (in the romantic and sexual senses) and so on.
zack, my question to you was in response to when you said that how do you feel about having sex with someone whom you just met? are you saying it’s a good or acceptable idea to sleep with someone whom you just met? also, interms of intimacy, what about those people who feel fine without sex, and can still cannot connect intimately but call it a good marriage? not everyone expects a good intimate and romantcie relationship ina marriage. why is love and sex important to you, when it may not be so for everyone? not everyone needs sex, do they? i
feel sex is VERY important in a marriage, since it often binds men and women together. moreover, i love sex, and i feel EVERYBODY should enjoy it, for it gives such wonderous pleasure, don’t you think so? I hope ALL OF YOU enjoy sex someday, for i know i have, since i was 19 years old.
shef: I have no idea where you got the bolded part of your question below:
Of course, sleeping with a stranger is not a good idea in my opinion.
And sex is an important part of a spousal relationship for most people. How do they get those kids otherwise 🙂
zack, why do you think sleeping with a relative stranger can not be a good idea? that’s my question, now, and from before. zack, can’t personalities change with time, and a person may suddenly not want to have physical intimacy with his/her partner? i’ve seen it happen, so i was wondering why doing sex with a relative stranger isn’t a smart move. also, i want to ask you something else: are divorce rates even necessarily a bad thing? i think that if a woman or a man is in an absive/unhealthy relationship with his/her partner, then it may be the best to leave, rather than to stay and be miserable. zack, do you think divorce rates up to a certain point are actually healthy in a society? and if so, on what reasons might they be actually beneficial to have a certain amount of divorces in a society?
shef:
I consider sex to be part of the relationship and so am not fond of one night stands and other basically-sexual relationships. Others may differ.
There is probably an optimum divorce rate. If divorce is too difficult to get, then spouses in unhappy or abusive relationships are stuck. On the other hand, divorce does impact negatively on children and so one shouldn’t be too quick to divorce.
zack, did you know something? i just learned that in terms of divorce rates, that even in western countries, 20 to 30 years ago, they were also very low. at that time, divorce had a strong stigma, and everyone would stay together just for the sake of marriage, before divorce became socially acceptable. thus, when proponents of arranged marriages say that they’re better because of low divorce rates, that’s a total fallacy, since if we were back 30 years ago, when even western countires had low divorce rates, and we compared both systems, you’d see that it would be about the same, did you know that divorce had a strong stigma even back then in western countries?
also, zack, when they say that arranged marriages are better because they concentrate mostly on the love aspects of a marriage, that’s a total lie, since in hindu custom, they’d arranged marriages to keep together people of the same rank and sociaal class, and still do that. even in pakistan, in arranged marriages, the trad of the man plays a major role in choosing a mate for the girl. only superficially have i heard how parents mention how much love there should be in the guy’s heart, instead of how much cash is in his wallet. at least in the west, since you’ve the choice whom you can be with, you can still overlook that sometimes and concentrate on the person. do you agree with this that love isn’t the most important or the main factor in these things, but money property and even looks are?
zack, also, don’t you think one of the reasons why arranged marriages “work” in india and pakistan is becasue of the lifestyle of those two countries? i mean both countries to some extent do stress a submissive role for their women, so they’ve to be pressured sometimes to choose from amongst any of the suitors, since living alone isn’t an option in those countries, and also the standard of living, since those two countries don’t have a high standard of living or education, they’ve no choice but to fall back on these systems of marriage, whereas in western coutries, ther are more options, so it’s harder to keep up these feudal systems to work?
lastyly zack, when those people who say we need arranged marriages becasue some people are shy and cannot find someone on their own, isn’t that still unnecessary, since even in the west, those shy people have their friends, folks, etc. just introducing them around to different people? for examply, i’ve a shy girlfriend who cannot ask guys out, so her girlfriends, her cousins and i are all trying to see if we can find guys to just introduce her to, and she’s even put out an ad in the papers to find a nice boy, and she’s even looking in the internet. thus do we really still need arranged marriages, when even in the west we still have this introduction system of finding somebody?
shef:
I think that no-fault divorce is a recent phenomenon in the West. Before that, divorce was difficult to get.
zack, what do you mena by “no-fault” divorce? also, zack, when these people from india and other cultures from arranged marriages say they’re “happy” sometimes i wonder, is it possible that they might say that on the outside but internally, they mught be unhappy? people are people all over, and i sometimes feel that people may say things on the outside, but it can be totally the opposite when you go behind closed doors. there are skeletons hidden in many closets of people, and sometimes things aren’t always whta they seem, so can we just say things are good based on the outside picture?
shef:
No-fault divorce means one can get a divorce without citing any reason. Previously in most western countries, one needed to give reasons for a divorce. The requirement for a reason could be easy or tough. Tough to meet requirements could include divorce only in case of adultery by the spouse, for example. Now one can get a divorce quickly and without any reason at all.
zack, when you said if a roomate relationship is equal to that of a spouse and that can cause lack of physical intimacy in a relationship, then what about those people who don’t want sex or physical intimacy in the relationship? you seem to assuming that all people want physical and sexual relationship in a marriage, when many just wnat a relationship based on paying the bills, raisng the kids, caring for elders, etc. can’t a sexless marriage still be successful? what can happen if there’s little or no intimacy there in a marriage? also, when you mentioned lack of intimacy, can a marriage that’s like a roomate relationship cause a loss in emotional intimacy and communication?
shef: You ask about couples “who don’t want sex or physical intimacy in the relationship” but want to share “raisng the kids” together. My question is where did the kids come from? Were they adopted?
zack, i know you have physical intimacy to make kids, but do you expect spouses to do it all the time? what if they want to just have one or two kids, then that’s it? after they have their kids, why can’t they stop, and just go back to raising kids, paying the bills, and having a partnership and complementary marriage? why would physical intimacy be needed when after you finish having the number of kids you want? moreover, what about those couples who do just have a complementary relationship without physical or emotional intimacy but are doing just fine? they seem to be doing fine, and that refutes your claim to need a best friend/lover/confidante relationship, doesn’t it? what can you say to that?
shef:
Every relationship is unique to an extent. We are obviously generalizing based on the average. There are, of course, spouses who are wonderful with each other without the sex (for example older people who marry very late in life). Also, sex does reduce in importance as one gets older and has kids. But there are lots of components to a successful marriage and for most people (note the qualification “most”) physical intimacy is part of it.
This is my last word on this thread since it’s more than 2 years old.
Ive been looking up a lot of stuff to help me learn more about Indian culture, and this really helped me out…I have met a 25 yr old male from India and he moved to the US about a yr and a half ago. We have been hanging out a lot the past two months and im kinda falling for him. The idea of him being in an arranged marriage never crossed my mind until my friend brought it up a few weeks ago. is it possible that even though he is living here that his mom would still have that much control over who he marries?
indian lover, that’s very true, for indian parents are traditional, and have that much control over their kids future, and that’s why i’m determined not to marry an indian man, for i don’t want to marry anoyone who can’t think for himself and is bound by tradition so much. to be honest i’m afraid to start a man who feels love is only somethuing that happens after marriage.
yeah but he has told me that he is feeling things for me he has never felt before…ive met his friends and he isnt n e thing like them…he seems to have control of his own life…but im thinking logically…just because he seems to act different doesnt mean he is different
indian lover, i don’t know what to say, just use your best judgement, but be careful. i’ve been disappointed in relationships with a good number of indian men becasue of the fact that a lot of them cannot think for themselves, and so i’ve lost attraction for them. to be frank with you, i think i can date them, for that isn’t so much the problem, but i surely do NOT want to start a family with an indian man. with an indian man, i don’t see emotional security and attachment in my next day. true, there are a few good apples among them, but they’re either already taken, or there’s a good of hungry female sharks after them. i know other indians would think of me as a traitor for this, being an indian woman, but i strongly do NOT want to be in a long-term relationship with an indian man. i want someone who can think for himself, do stuff rationally, and not just blindly follow tradition. what does your indian boyfriend feel about arranged marriages? also, indian lover, what do you think of my not wanting to be with an indian man, and my desire to look for love elsewhere? are many reasons for this well-grounded?
shef, i think that you are looking for what every woman is looking for…something better…see you know how indian men are..you have probably been around them your whole life..and decided that they arent the right for your personality…you want a strong independent person with you and thats fantastic more power to you really…but i dont know what to think…i have never been around Indians and i dont know what to expect…only from what ive read about the culture…i want to ask him more about it …but i dont want him to think that im getting doubts about him…it would probably be the easiest way to figure things out…but im to much of a coward..hence the reason i am here…asking complete strangers…maybe ill just start out with subtle hits then if he doesnt get it ill eventually just come out with it.*sigh* such a confused person right now…but even with all the confusion and doubt it seems alot better than dating white guys
indian lover, whuy do you think indian are better than white men? don’t say that! as for your bf, why can’t you just directly ask him? does he really want to do what his mom wants him to do? indian men may not cheat as much as white men do, and i agree that indian guys are generally much softer when it comes to women than white men, but in terms of thinking independetly, being able to solve problems as a husband, and appreciating woemn and their roles and their choices, and giving woman true attention and affection, indian don’t have much to offer. i agree there are many white men who’re bad, but trust me, i’ve been around a lot of indian men, and to even get to the marriage point, they usually want their mothers’ approval before even getting to the romance point! thus, they’ve a double-edged sword when it comes to stuff like showing their true devotion to their beloved. as i said before, indian men are generally much softer physically with women than white men, but they honestly make lousy life partners, and it’s not really their fault, it’s the arranged marriage system’s fault, since if you’ve to form a bond with that person after marriage, and there’s little concentration on emotional aspects or love, any affection that’ll be brought on will be mostly for the sake of it. at least white men can think for themselves, be able to solve problems(since they usually are encouraged to do so since the beginning of time as opposed to indian culture where parents come before everything,so they sacrifice it for their folks), and they can more often than not offer true romance to a woman, which is what i think we all need. most people in the world don’t want a mate mostly for paying the bills, raising the kids etc. they want a lover, best friend, soulmate, and that’s where i feel indian men cannot fulfill that role well. indian’s lover, why don’t you want to be with a white guy? you honestly don’t know how lucky you are. i’m 21 and i’ve never even had a serious thing with an indian boy. i just cannot jibe with them mentally. i want a man beside me for life, not just someone for the sake of marriage. you may get a husband via an arranged marriage, but you may not get a lover/bestfriend/confidante. it’s easy to follow tradition, and say i’m a good husband because i pay the bills, take care of kids etc, but it’s hard to take initiative and say i’ll be her lover and friend.
can anyone here give me advice on how to deal with my folks on my not wanting to marry and indian but a sri lankan? i want to go to australia to find a sri lankan man, and my folks will hate it, and they’ll start badgering me to marry an indian man when i don’t want to. i’m not mentally drawn or attracted to indian guys… i want a sri lankian man at all costs. can anyone help me? zack can you help me? what can i do?
shef: I have no idea how you can convince your parents about this since I am not convinced myself about looking at nationality rather than the person.
zack, why don’t you believe me when i tell you i’ve had bad experiences with indian men? believe me, i’ve been around enough indian men in my life, and i feel they’re not right for me, i think they’re spoilt and i don’t feel i can get the happiness i need from them. don’t you think i’ve a right to find love elsewhere if i’ve been disappointed in relationships with indian men?
shef: I believe you. It’s just that I don’t think a general case can be made against Indian (or American or Sri Lankan or French etc.) men, as opposed to the case against specific men.
zack, like i said so before, NOT all indian men are like this,there are some good ones, but based on being around them for most of my life, knowing how the indian culture is, getting feedback from other people, i can say that a lot of them are cold and emotionally detached from their women. all stereotypes have some truth in them, or they wouldn’t be stereotypes in the first place. besides, when one grows up in a society, he acts accordingly to its rules and so thinks thta hey, if other men are happy with a wife who can work, cook, and clean, and what i mostly have to as husband is pay the bills, but not be her friend or lover, why should i not do the same? there’s no divorce, and she can’t live aslone as a woman. that’s how many indian men think. do you get what i mean zack? to be honest, i’m afraid to start a family with a man who thinks love mostly happens after marriage, since love may not happen, and the indian definition of love is familial love, not romantic love, which is very important in keeping alive the communication, trust, and intimacy between husband and wife. can you blame me for being afraid to begin a family with a man who thinks love happens after marriage?
girl you dont need to ask any one how u feel…obviously u have made up your mind…and seems like a fantastic choice…if ur family cant understand…elope…go to australia…make some love …then elope…sounds like a fantastic plan in my mind 😛 its what i would do in your situation..
indian’s lover, thaks a lot. i wish more peopel would understand like you do. it’s gonna be tough, going to australia and all, but i cannot stay here and have my life lived for me. my folks would never force me to be with an indian, but they’d try to guilt trip me or annoy the hell out of me to marry an indian man, and i don’t want that. it’s gonna be tough, going to australia to find a sri lankan, but i want to find my other half, and love and take care of him. hey, if these russian women can do it, why can’t I ever heard of russian mail order brides? these women are strong and all, and i must be that way as well. i wish that for all of you. never give up on love.
shef: I understand your problem. I was just saying that it would be difficult to convince your parents (or even me) about not marrying an Indian. May be you can try convincing them to let you find the best guy regardless of nationality?
i agree zack, maybe that would be the best thing. just out of curiosity, how come you did this blog on arranged marriages? is it to help others or for personal reasons?
Nice website. Actually i had to do a paper for my class on arranged marriages,and came across this website.But I think most of the people make arranged marriages sound like so horrible or something. Arranged marriage is one where the families are involved in the decision making progress, and the final decision has to be made with the Two people(bride and groom)and that is Islam.And it is not like two individuals hasn’t seen each other till the day of wedding.
For kashmiri boy i can suggest that even if you don,t know your partner that much on ist day, you can be patient and get to know each other till both of you feel comfortable with eachother.
I don,t like the suggestion of getting drunk(even if it was a joke)
Arranged marriages are beneficial not only for the couple but for the society too.If my parents find a guy for me i will appreciate that, but yes if i like someone on my own i,m sure they will not force me for an arranged marriage.Just want to let you know that arranged marriages are not forced marriages(a ton of difference)
shef:
Mainly it was because I hear two very different, but wrong, stories about arranged marriage: One confuses arranged marriage with forced marriage and the other considers arranged marriage to be the panacea for all the West’s ills. I thought I should provide a more realistic picture. Hence this post.
Nikki: Arranged marriages cover a large spectrum from almost forced ones to almost “love marriages”. Whether they are good for society or not depends on the particular cultural dynamics of that society.
zack, you say that it may or may not be good to have arranged marriages in a society, but i think you might be mistaken, becasue when we decide to get married, it’s not just a personal choice whether or not to get an arranged marriage, since if there’s little dating involved in your society, then you might be coerced to accept this method, don’t you agree? moreover, the fact that you’re so limited b/c of the fact that it’s your parents choosing your life partner can actually backfire, since you may not be bale to fid that person via your folks. thus, how can you say it’s a personal choice to get an arranged marriage, since there’s a consequence that you may not be able to find that person via your folks and you may have to marry via the love marriage system? lastly, to all those who say that love forms after marriage, i disagree with that, since usually the love that forms in arranged marriages is usually familial love, not romantic love, which is supposed to be the universal concept in all cultures and peoples are the world. zack, you understand this last part? think about it, if in your culture, there’s little dating before settling down, any love that’s brought on will be brought on moslty for the sake of it, since it’s like whatever comes, comes, and you’re not given a chance to have a romance, which is why i don’t want to marry an indian man.
zack, i also feel this is a good site to spread the word to all my indian sisters going through the same problem as me, that they should go for sri lankan men, for they’re much more romantic, appreciative, and loving than our local men. can you help me pass on this messageto my indian sisters? i’ve been too used and abused in this male-dominated indian system, and i feel a sri lankan man is the way out, and i feel ALL indian girls should do that, don’t you zack? besides, what’s the worst that can happen if most indian girls married sihalese-sri lankan men instead of local indian men?
I just wanted to say, this is very interesting reading. You think that you’re in a world of your own when it comes to marriage. Marriage itself is a scary thing and divorce is even scarier. Who get’s married to experience a divorce? Too much emphasis is put on how it either works out or falls apart. I think people need serious advice on how to make it worth – no matter what type of marriage it was and no matter how bad it gets…how do you hold on to it?
Forced Marriage in Islam: Post #2
Previous Posts of this series: Cousin Marriage and Forced Marriage in Pakistan. I did some research for this post. Actually, I asked my sister to tell me what Abdur Rahman Al-Jazairi had to say about the topic in his book…
My role in my project on arranged marriages in India is who pays for it and what is the financial process?
kerry, the girl’s family usually pays for it, the boy’s family also helps, but SOME indian families give dowries to the man’s family to take their girl away. i know of one indian girl and her family gave the groom $200 in dowry so that he could take their duaghter away, as per marraige custom. not all indian families are like this, but since this arranged marriage system is male-dominated, sometimes families have to give moneyu to the groom. and usually after they marry, they live for a couple of years in the guy and his parents’ house. my two cousins got married to two indian women 5 years ago, but they’re still living with his parents(to save money and as per tradition). my indian girlfriend in india got married two years ago, and she also lived with her groom and his family for 2 years before they got their own apartment. she actually got a nice handsome guy via arranged marriage, since her chances of finding a guy were slim, due to the fact that she was of a low caste,(even though she’s a good profession, as an industrial engineer), and he was very high caste. her mom was really worried since she was 21, and right after studies finish in india, they start talking of wedding bells? in fact, by age 26, most people there are already married, so she got lucky. kerry, that’s one of the reasons why i don’t want to build my future and family with an indian man. do you know after i’m 26, i’m pretty much considered an old maid, and that it’ll be very hard for me to find a decent man? most men want younger women, and if indian man cannot date, due to tradition, then i MIGHT be pressured to pretty much accept the 10th or 11th suitor due to tradition, and how stressful that is? there is so much pressure in this system, and i think it takes time to find that right person. i’d rather take my time, find my one and truly one, rather than go through suitor after suitor like an assembly line, and be pressured into making a choice in a time frame. either that, or it’s better to live alone than to deal with having a fixed friend for the rest of your life, along with being intimate with someone you cannot romantically connect with.
Hello. Does anyone know if any spanish countries still have arranged marriage. If so, which ones?
shef,
call me a pessimist, but i think love is overrated. after marriage the expectaions and attitudes are totally different.
i feel your ideals are a little romantic. but i think marriage involves a relationship of trust, understanding and harmony more than attraction, chemistry and excitement.
i know you wonder how you can be physically attracted to a ‘stranger’, but letting emotions in is like letting logic out. millions of people coexist happily (i mean really happily) in their arranged marriage situations and it is not some sick convoluted thing always associated with things like bride burning.
i am not your standard married pro-arranged-marriage goodie-goodie girl who always wants to be a good daughter and wife and is hypocritical about love marriages types.
i would suggest in your best interests that you dont have any negative biases about anyone or anything when it comes to deciding what you want.
i know when you try to voice what an arranged marriage is, it sounds like a deprivation of personal choice. if the concept of arranged marriages in general bugs you, dont let it affect your personal decisions.
i know that you might have been hurt by indian guys, believe me, i have had my share for a lifetime. but if you find someone with god’s and your parents blessings(i know it sounds callous but i am serious) there is no reason you shouldnt consider all your options for making your life better and less lonely.
with affection
eyedealist
eyedealist, i also feel love involves understanding, trust, and commitment, and that forms for me a good deal of romance. there are many healthy compnents to a relationship, and romance isn’t all what it’s about, but it is essentil for MOST PEOPLE, and if there is little emotional attraction and attachment, that can cause loss o trust amongst the couple, infidelity, and even lack of communication between themselves and their kids. personally, i agree, not all arranged marriages are bad, but i still feel it’s much more healthy to a relationship when you love somebody and develop feelings for them before you marry them, since you may not have that after you marry them. that’s also why why i want to love someone before i marry them. i want my kids to have two parents who sincerely care for each other(Not do so for familial ties), and so that they can have a kind, caring and devoted father, especially for my son(if i have one). also, in indian/hindu culture, it’s expected that a woman live with her husband and his family after marriage, so they often don’t really get to know one another when around so many other people, and that’s why i feel that it’s better if husband and wife live separately unless for some other reason after marriage, and that they talk of how they want to live together, not do everything for the sake of tradition. i also agre there are some indian guys who’re good, but they’re usually already taken, and/or there’s a group of hungry female shaks after them, as well as indian parents. Thus, i’ve decided to go another route. im gonna be 22 soon, and within 3 to 4 years, i’ll be considered an old maid, and it’ll be hard for me to find a suitable person. I honestly feel emotionally drained going to another culture and country to find a mate, but having a loving, caring, and independent, and trustworthy man is very important for me, and when i find the right man, i’ll do my best to be a loving, caring, honest, and devoted wife. i’m not a feminist, for i don’t mind cooking, cleaning, and caring for my man, but it that’s mostly what a marriage is about, i’d rather not get into it, especially since in india, a male-dominated system, one of the biggest reaons why these arranged marriages “work” is becasue of the idea of women mostly serving and pampering men, when i think it should be serving and pampering each other, not a one-way street. that’s why outsiders don’t often like our indian system. when was the last time you actively heard of people looking for an indian spouse, especially an indian man? i grew up around indians, and i’ve seen how these marriages can put burdens on the man and the woman, especially if you’re living in your spouse’s house with his/her parents around all the time, and the abuse of power. while western societies may not be perfect, and while even some other asian societies like chinese and korean have traditional values, they still have adapted to modern times, even back home. india is a big mess today mostly becasue indians cannot think for themsleves. why else do you think they’re desperate to escape from there and go to western countries. one of the reviewers i think Lost Love said they’re gonna use they system of arranged mariages to import more family members here, and i hope western governments put a stop to that. how dare any man or woman from india try to use us via arranged marriages to come here and do their bidding? i refuse to be a piece of property to be sold, or a ticket to america. i like to compromise in my marriage, and have mutual love, emotional understanding and attachment. true, not all arranged marriages are bad, soem are REALLY good, but from my own experiences and from the experiences of others, my thesis is that overall, the heartaches, struggles anddisappointments as well as the parental and societal pressures often outway the benefits of this system, regardless of the low divorce rate, which is a bunch of baloney, it’s not my intent to say that all arranged marriages are gruesome, i’m just telling you all who are crazy or so pro-arranged marriage of what you may be up against if you do decide to just go this route, and neglect to think for yourself. my best example of this is my cousin, she’s a lovely girl, and she just decided to let her folks find someone for her, and she didn’t date, and now she’s 30 and alone, she’s never even had a real date. her folks limited her to meet men according to their social class caste, money, etc., so she was limited, and those guys whom she met she couldn’t find any compatibility, and now’s she’s frustrated, and her folks often tell her she’ll be alone forever if she keeps rejecting “every suitor that comes to call.”maybe if she’d also looked for a guy she wanted and dated, maybe she could’ve at least had a good relationship by now. though dating doesn’t guarantee you a spouse, it certainly makes you more available to people, and so it increases your chances of finding the right one, instead of limiting yourself to your parents’ choices, who have their own biases. i feel knowledge is power and one needs all the knowledge she/he can get, otherwise suffer the consequences of ignorance as i have, as well as what my cousins have. i’m not saying indian girls are perfect, and it’s emotionally making me guilty to find someone like a sihalese-sri lankan man, but i’ve gotta do what i’ve gotta do. why is everyone so against me in my search for a sihalese-sri lankan man?